Posted by: sponyak | March 29, 2008

A Christian Skewers ID

A recent exchange on the subject of Intelligent Design vs. Evolution/”Expelled”, courtesy of the ABC News “Science & Society” blog…

TOM said;
Anyone who believes we evolved from apes without a single transitional species to be found (and there should be “countless” millions of them in the fossil record) is clearly operating on blind faith.

There are SO many gaps in evolutionary theory, how it is so widely accepted is miraculous. This movie will expose alot of truth that has been withheld for too long.”

To which my hero, RAYMOND, replied;
“Of course there are transitional fossils found! Any student of the subject would know this. And we really are beginning to collect an impression collection of human/hominid fossils stretching way back. Of course, every time a new fossil is found we create another “gap.” So the abundance of gaps in the fossil record is a testimony to the abundance of fossils we have found, a huge amount of evidence. The evidence is not only in the fossil record itself, but also in our own DNA.

I am a former creationist. I have not lost faith in God one little bit, but I have lost faith in creationism and the pseudo-science that is done in the name of God. None of it is real science, none of it follows the evidence to come to a conclusion, but all of it, all of the evidence and interpretation of it in creationism is bent to a predetermined conclusion. Lying is pretty much an all-the-time event, including lying about what science says, what science is, what science does, and why it does it. These lies are blatant and fill their literature. They take what scientists say and remove the context and twist the words to make it appear that they are saying something else or admitting to something they are not. They easily ignore anything that does not agree with their predetermined position, and continue to repeat arguments or claim as evidence things which have been conclusively shown to be false.

Dawkins was absolutely right to be incensed by the trickery of these hypocrites. True Christians would have been straightforward and honest in their dealings. The interviews in the picture were stolen by lies.

So please, fellow Christians, forgive me when I say that no good thing can come from this. Any philosophy or position which must be supported by lying is corrupt, and creationism is about as corrupt as it is possible to get. Hmmm. Now what punishment did Christ say would be handed out to “workers of iniquity” who claimed to follow him?”

A thousand tips of the hat to you, Raymond!!!

Mark T.



  1. As I read through Raymond’s rant, i couldn’t help wondering if he was talking about evolutionism or creationism…

    There have been despicable performances on both sides of this fence, but I’m sure that the truth of the matter will never be determined by biased orthodoxy whose methods curtail freedom of thought or inquiry, as is happening to those who for scientific reasons question the validity of a theory for which non-fitting evidence has been so blatantly hammered into place. That gaps are real is unquestioned. Ignored maybe, but not questioned. When hostility, anger, judicial process, media manipulation, distortion of language and definition become the tools of science, one who is honest must ask whether he is defending science or something else.

  2. I suppose the next step in the ID movement could be to insist that math is wrong. After all, the magically expanding loaves and fish of the Bible “prove” the parts are greater than the whole–in direct conflict with the secular way that fractions are taught in elementary school.

  3. Ouch! That wouldn’t surprise me, Cloudberry. There are many in this supposedly “advanced” nation who, for whatever reason, seemingly wish to usher in a new dark age.

  4. From the so-called “Discovery” Institute:

    “Scientists who support intelligent design seek evidence of design in nature, and argue that such evidence points to intelligent design, based on our historical knowledge of cause and effect. So, intelligent design theory is not an argument based on what we don’t know, but rather an argument about what we do know.”

    Oh, the doubletalk… why can’t they just be honest and say, “We’re determined to squeeze religion into science.”

  5. Every time a new transitional fossil is found, two more gaps are created. Let’s say we have a picture of a baby and currently have a real, live old man. The baby may look somewhat like the old man, but there is a very large gap. So let’s add in a picture of him at 10. Now we have two gaps. Now let’s add pictures at ages 2, 5, 21, and 50. Now we have 7 gaps! Golly gee!

    Ray- There are many aspects of evolutionary theory that will continue to be under debate in scientific circles. I’d be interested in specific examples non-fitting evidence being hammered into place. Any other specifics you’d like to add to your argument are welcome as well.

    One final question- if tomorrow it is shown that evolution is totally false, do you think that would say anything about the validity of alternative theories?

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